Freedom Within The Form

A maladroit melange of melancholic malarkey and moilic malaise

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Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

I am by qualification a Mathematician and Biologist; by trade a Web Programmer; by interest a Philosopher; by nature a Fool; and by grace a Christian.

Friday, June 06, 2008

Keeping the Faith

 Tonight at my church (Hornby Presbyterian) we had our "Friday Forum", something which we hold every month or so, usually involving a guest speaker and/or discussion on a particular topic.

 Tonight's topic was "How to get a degree without losing your faith", in which we had several questions regarding the topic, each one to be briefly addressed by selected graduates from the church, followed by a brief general discussion per question. (It went particularly well by the way, with a good turnout and engaging dialogue - thanks particularly to Ross McKerras for organising it).

 I was tasked with addressing the question, "Have you encountered ideas that made you realise that you genuinely did need to modify your faith? / Are there legitimate ways that you have modified your faith?", and below is the response I gave.

 I thought it would be fair to post it here, seeing as it involves some of you who may read my blog, and would perhaps give an opportunity for response and discussion on how fair my observations are. At the very least it may help to give an indication on where I stand.

[View response (& notes) »]

5 Comments:

Blogger Nathan said...

I feel judged and hurt when you said there is a lack of abounding love.

12:51 PM, June 07, 2008  
Blogger Matthew P said...

 Hi Nathan – I’m guessing its safe to assume that you’re having a dig at the fact that my comments might seem particularly unloving themselves. That’s a fair point then, and I think I should explain myself a bit better.

 I don’t think our group is an unloving one – not at all – but my experience is that there has not been any great depth of love. Perhaps I am being a bit wishful, I know I can be a bit idealistic, but I have felt this “lack” frequently.

 And I don’t mean to be harsh or judging from a distance, I am part of this number, and have been disappointed by myself frequently too. They are criticisms though, criticisms I also need to deal with, and I don’t think that they are completely unfounded. I might add that they are things that have gradually crept in, in “increasing measure”, and my main reason for mentioning them was to do with trying to reconcile the culture and foundations of the group with such truths as, “by their fruits you will know them”.

 Forgive me if I have upset or offended any of you – I had no intention to do so. I still very much care for and love you all, though I might fail to express it very well. Please know that any frustrations I do have with our group is only because I care for us.

5:17 PM, June 07, 2008  
Blogger Nathan said...

Sorry, I wasn't (consciously) attempting to have a dig at anything. The post made me feel a certain way, and I thought it appropriate to let you know. I had a bigger comment, but decided an argument on here wouldn't be productive, however, I did want to let you know what it was like for someone to read it.

If you wish to discuss such things, I would be happy to do so, but preferably in real life.

10:56 PM, June 08, 2008  
Blogger Matthew P said...

 Well, thanks for your honesty, I didn’t realise that it might have that sort of effect, sorry.

 When I wrote it, it was intended for a different audience, as a part of an explanation of my experiences …but I can see now how it would seem so blunt and impersonal to you all, whom I effectively did make a part of that same audience by posting it here. If I was to specifically address you all on those issues, I wouldn’t have done it in such a casual and passing way, but with much more consideration and tact – I’m sorry, that was an oversight on my part.

 But I did post it with you (the group) in mind as potential viewers, and so I asked if you thought the observations were fair – I was meaning to be questioning the group dynamic, not personally accusing – yet, as I’ve just mentioned, I failed to take into consideration the way I originally wrote it, to a different audience, and so it has upsettingly come across as something contrary to what I had intended, for which I apologise.

 I don’t wish to make a big deal out of it, but please let me rephrase that part of what I posted, with you (the group) specifically in mind:

 “There are some things with which I have had a little trouble with in our group – some things I’ve found difficult to reconcile with us being Christians.
 One of those is the tendency to casually mock some groups of Christians (usually the Pentecostal type), who might have an unhealthy understanding of / approach to the faith – I know it isn’t malicious at all, but I think it is unhelpful at times.
 Another is the way the humour so often turns to lewdness. I’m happy that we don’t have an austere attitude towards sexuality, but it seems that we too often push the line too far for cheap laughs concerning something which is actually very precious and sacred even. (Perhaps its because we’re so concerned about not being austere, that we go too far in the other direction?)
 Another is a lack of respect, and even contempt, for some authority, particularly the doctrinal authority of the church. I know some of you disagree strongly with the protestant doctrines, but I think there is often a subtle (and sometimes not-so-subtle) contempt for most authorities which claim authority in some area, particularly relating to truth. I’m happy that we question the status quo, and value our ability to critique, but I think that there is a very subtle contempt for authority in the core ethos of the group, which we have let creep in unchecked (perhaps even for culture in general).
 There is one last thing I wish to mention of the group, and this is more idealistic than anything else, and is not so much of something wrong, but of something that could be better. That is, that although the group is a loving one, it seems to me that the love present in the group stops short of the sort of abounding love you read of in the bible amongst the early Christians. A love that grows, and grows also in expression. Now I am just as at “fault” as any other here, if not more – in my lack of making an effort to encourage, an effort to know of another’s wellbeing, and even the effort to keep in touch (and of wanting to make those efforts too).
 The main reason I originally wrote of a “lack of abounding love”, was to do with the fact that despite the strong anti-Reformation influence on the group, such love had not come about, leaving the influence (neutrally) in question rather than (positively) showing it to be something which brought about such love. I intended the same sort of neutral/positive logic to be applied to the other troubles I wrote of too.”


 Hopefully I have clarified what I had failed to before. I’m sorry its so long, and I suppose it needn’t necessarily be so, but I am concerned that I cause no offense where none was intended, and to allay any that I have caused, as well as make sure that I’m understood.

 I hope I haven’t put off any discussion with my long-windedness, so feel free to comment. (Although as Nathan suggested, it would be better to discuss it in real life. …This here is perhaps more convenient though…)

8:55 AM, June 09, 2008  
Blogger The Gregorys said...

Hi Matthew. I really enjoyed reading your post, and must admit that many of your concerns have been weighing heavily on our (Lizzie's and my) minds lately too. It's a GOOD thing to thrash out these issues, and to ask the hard questions. I reckon we've slipped a long way compared to the accounts we read in the Scriptures, and since the time of the Reformation. All the best, and I look forward to catching up sometime in the future. Cheers, Graham.

10:34 AM, January 20, 2009  

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